882: Short Sales Uncensored with Nicole Espinosa, The Short Sale Queen

Matt: Hello, Rockstar Nation. This is Matt Templeton, your host for today on Real Estate Rockstars. Today, I have an amazing guest, Nicole Espinosa. She has a really interesting niche market and a ton of education for you. Nicole Espinosa is the short sale queen. She did over 146 short sales last year and carries almost that many listings at any given time, helping sellers that are in distress. Today, we’re going to unpack Nicole’s business and find out how you can maybe enter that market or as you find those people, refer them to the right person to take great care of your clients. Nicole, tell us a little bit more. I introed a little bit. You’re the short sale queen. What do we need to know about that?

Nicole Espinosa: You definitely hit the nail on the head. It’s definitely a niche. Even though I am a real estate agent, I’m in a completely different world than most agents that really just don’t even understand because most of our conversations are with lenders and dealing with lost litigation and things like that, terms you usually don’t hear on a daily basis. We are nation-wide. We process short sales in nine different markets right now. We got a little bit ahead of ourselves, and we were in ’19, and then like, “Wait. Stop. That happened too fast.” [chuckles]

We were going wide, trying to narrow it down. It’s all we do, and because it is so specialized, I think it’s really important that just in general, that agents are specializing in something, but with short sales specifically because it’s so different than normal transactions. We really don’t have time to do anything else. It would be a disservice to our clients.

Matt: Wow. You and I have been around for a while. We’ve seen several different markets. I was doing some stats the other day on the National Association of Realtors and realtors in the market. More than half the agents that are in the market right now have only been in the business for three years or less. We’ve got all these agents that they don’t remember back to ’08, ’09, 2010, 2011 when short sales were really popular. Tell those agents that may not even know what this means, what is a short sale?

Nicole: Absolutely. What it would look like for a real estate agent is that they are going on a listing appointment and the seller is telling them, “Hey. I owe,” let’s use real numbers, “I owe $150,000,” and they’re looking at the comps and they’re like, “I can’t list your house for more than $100,000.” Then what do you do at that point? The seller doesn’t have any money to come to closing with, and there’s only so much we can do as realtors to reduce our commissions or try to make it work. In those situations, when you’re dealing with the expired listings, because they couldn’t sell, because of price, or you’re trying to help out a homeowner that owes more than the house is worth, that’s a short sale. If they’re behind, they have some type of financial hardship. That’s what it looks like for a real estate agent.

Matt: Got you. It’s a negotiation with the bank to take less than what they owe on that property, and the seller has a hardship so they’re needing to get out of that situation.

Nicole: Correct.

Matt: Now, how long does a short sale normally take? What’s the time process for that?

Nicole: That is a great question. It’s everybody’s question, but it’s so hard to answer because it really depends on the person processing it. The agent has so much control of the process. They have control of whether they’re submitting the right documents, if they’re talking to the right people, if they’re asking the right questions. For us, our average is three months from start to finish, which is really great because the industry standard was a year, and that’s if it gets approved. There’s so many moving parts and so many variables, but that’s our average timeframe.

Matt: Three months that we’re in the seller’s living room to the seller is closed or the seller is-

Nicole: Correct.

Matt: -approved. The seller’s closed. Three months on average from they raise their hand and say, “I need help. I’m in a bad situation,” to we’re out of your bad situation moving onto the next thing.

Nicole: Correct.

Matt: I know you don’t work with a lot of buyers. You have team members that work with buyers that come off of those listings. When a seller does a short sale, how soon can they buy again?

Nicole: Credit is a revolving factor. We got to make sure that the rest of their credit is good, but, after completing a short sale, a seller can purchase a property two to two and half years after closing. It’s really good for them because they need that time to rebuild. I always tell our clients, “Hey, look. This is the perfect opportunity to fix everything else” because usually when they’re behind on one thing, it’s a domino effect. They’re behind on everything else. They spend those two years leasing, and then they can end up purchasing again.

Matt: Awesome. Keep those people in your lead pipeline. They’re going to turn into buyers again two to three years from now.

Nicole: Absolutely.

Matt: Great. I know that oftentimes when we’re working with a short seller, or someone’s doing the short sale, really we’re talking to the bank most of the time, and banks, are you seeing are doing the majority of short sales? Who’s the easiest bank to work with? I’m just curious what you’re seeing out there in the market.

Nicole: They’re all equally a pain in the butt. [chuckles] There’s not one that sticks out. I can say that it changes just because the guidelines change. It’s really not about the servicer. I think the better question is who is the worst to work with because they’re all equally terrible. As far as the easiest, on top of my head would probably be, only because they’ve been in so much trouble legally, that they’re a lot easier to work, and we have contacts there. Then I can say the same thing about Wells Fargo because we have contacts there too. They’re just extremely picky. It depends on the day. Usually, I’m upset at one more than the other on that day.

Matt: It sounds like you have the inside scoop on this, and obviously you’ve done it. You know the process. You know the documents. You know what’s going to happen, what’s going to go awry. I run Keller Williams offices and have Keller Williams things, and oftentimes I’m talking to agents, and they’ll have a seller that’s in distress and they say, “We’re going to have to do a short sale.” They’ve never done that before. What are the pitfalls? What are the problems with that? You’ve got a lot of experience. Where do you see that going problematically?

Nicole: The best advice I can give to an agent that’s thinking about taking one on is to make sure that you either have resources, that you have somewhere to go to to ask questions because here’s what ends up happening. It’s like the blind leading the blind. The banks are not going to tell you what they need. They’re going to tell you after the fact, “Well, we shut it down, because you didn’t send us this.” Most agents take the approach of, “Well, I submitted it. I’m just waiting for them to get back with me.” Then the client ends up getting foreclosed on. Exactly.

Matt: “Waiting for them to get back to me.” [laughs]

Nicole: Just like any real estate transaction, your success is in asking the right questions. If you don’t know the questions to ask, how are you going to be successful in the transaction, especially because every short sale is different? For example, if you have an FHA Wells Fargo, it’s going to be a completely different process than a Wells Fargo that’s a conventional loan. If you don’t understand that, you don’t even know where to start. If you’re going to take on a short sale, either get the information that you need, maybe someone that’s already done them before, but don’t practice on someone that’s in foreclosure, because to you it’s a listing that’s lost. To the person, they’re trusting you as the professional, and now they lost their house because you didn’t know what to do.

Matt: Wow, and we know that– You just said, with a short sale, they can buy in two to three years. With a foreclosure, what? Seven years or more, sometimes?

Nicole: Seven plus from the time the deed’s recorded, and sometimes it takes years to do that. A lot of times, we’ve seen 9, 10 years. Short sale is definitely a lot better option. Not only that, but we are settling their debt. They’re no longer worried about the liability of that difference. That’s really important because that way these homeowners truly get to walk away free and clear and have a fresh start.

Matt: It’s interesting. I have my coffee mug and on it, it says, “For the love of real estate and for the lives of our people.” When I hear you talk about that idea of this is their life, this is their home. I always want to convey this idea to new real estate agents or even agents that have been in the business for a while that have gotten very transactional. Yes, we can get a lot of volume. We can sell a lot of houses, but these are people’s lives. We love real estate. Let’s really do this at a high level. Let’s create amazing customer experiences, not just, “Oh, we tried our best and wash our hands of it,” and, “I didn’t make a commission. Oh well.” This is a big deal. This is a big, and important

Now, obviously, you’ve already convinced me that I just want to refer my short sales to you or someone else and I don’t want to touch this. I stopped touching short sales after the last time that short sales went out of vogue. What question should the agent be asking if they’re on an appointment and they realize this is going to be a short sale? What things do they need to get– What data do they need to get right away so that they can get it in the hands of someone like you?

Nicole: Absolutely. The first thing I would ask is, are they in foreclosure, or do they have a foreclosure date? This question is so important because if you don’t know that you have a timeline, a lot of times clients or homeowners will reach out when it’s too late with– They only have a sense of urgency because they have a foreclosure date set and use the professional. They may not tell you. Of course, you’re going to get some clients that are trying to pull one over on you, but most of the time, it’s ignorance. Most of the time, new sellers, they don’t open their mail. These are a different type of client.

Most agents are used to homeowners that the homeowners are driving the bus. The homeowners are the ones, no. In the short sale, you’re driving the bus and the transaction. It’s a completely different perspective and mind shift change. A lot of agents, we can’t get on board with that, and they’re like, “Well, the seller didn’t tell me.” Well, you’re the professional, you have to ask.

The number one thing that I would ask is there a sale date? That way you know if you’re up against a timeframe. Then I would find out who the lender is and what type of loans. What’s owed against the property? That’s really important because you could be dealing with multiple lenders. You could be dealing with a lot of different things that you are responsible for negotiating. I would start there. Those are two really important questions if you think that this client is a potential short sale.

Matt: I want to recap that because that last two or three minutes is golden for those of you that are talking to distressed homeowners. Is there a sale date? Are we in foreclosure yet? Do we know yet? That was huge. Who is the lender because if I’m going to hand this off to Nicole or another short sale person, I’ve got to know who we’re going to be dealing with, and maybe I need to figure out who the specialist in that area. Sorry.

Nicole knows all the banks but Ocwen and Wells Fargo, she’s got people at. I go under that. Then what type of loans? FHA, conventional VA, uninsured, et cetera. What type of loans because that’s going to matter significantly? Then what is owed and, specifically, is there more than just the principal balance? They may give you one statement and then there’s a second loan, a heel lock on there too and you don’t even know that you’re going to go negotiate the second one.

Nicole: Let’s take it a little bit further. Not only what is owed, but what’s the actual payoff because most people look at their mortgage statement and they see their unpaid principal balance but what you need to understand is that if somebody is behind, that unpaid principal balance is only based off if someone was current. Taking a step further, there have been times where the seller is convinced that they owe $200,000, and then we’ve gotten the payoff and it comes back at $260,000 and you’re like, “Oh crap. I was basing all my numbers off of that $200,000 and now–” Always get a payoff. Sometimes when we’re at the appointment, we just have them call right then and there because they don’t know.

Matt: Rockstar Nation, that is some of the best advice. Even if you’re dealing with traditional real estate, oftentimes, people don’t know what their is. They see the mortgage balance. Even if they’re not behind, they’re still going to own some interest on that closing. They’ll get to closing and they’ll say, “That’s not what my balance in my statement said.” You’re like, “No, that’s what the bank told us the payoff was.”

Knowing how are calculated and especially if they’re behind or if there’s judgments, if there’s other things, knowing that the payoff is going to be higher than what they were thinking. Then your job as the real estate professional is to set those expectations, to help to clarify what– It’s their situation. You didn’t create the situation, but now you’re helping unfold it, explain it, clarify it, and set expectations around it. That payoff recommendation is huge.

Now, the next question I want to ask you, Nicole, because I’ve been doing a lot of traditional real estate and selling a lot of homes, and the market is amazing. I think, “Why short sales? Isn’t everybody appreciating? Their homes are going up in value. Short sales are for when the market’s going down and things are getting worse. Are short sales still necessary in such a good market?

Nicole: Oh, absolutely. I would disagree on that it’s such a good market just because I feel like this last year, we were preparing for a major downturn because we’re seeing foreclosure and default rate go up and it’s shifting to a buyer’s market. When that happens, sellers lose the power to be able to sell and sell quickly. In these situations, that’s where you see more and more short sells, but when we were in our prime, when you were getting out of short sales, and I was still doing it, when you were talking about earlier, I remember my broker at the time and he’s like, “What? You specialize in short sales? There’s no short sales around here.”

I was trying to explain to him, I was like, “Look, in any market, there’s going to be a need for short sales because it’s not just based off of the price or the market going up. It’s based off of someone’s financial situation.” You’ve got people that are always going to have hardships. The reason why they get themselves in a no-equity position is because they get into the trap of loan modifications. They get into the trap of forbearance.”

That’s a whole other podcast, [chuckles] talking about loan [unintelligible 00:20:41] because I can get on my whole spiel about them. Just understand that that’s the main reason why. Now, of course, the market has a play and whether there are more short sales because if the prices are going down drastically, and people have to sell, they lose the power to be able to do that. The majority of the short sales are because of the financial hardship, not because of the condition of the house, which is a huge misconception because most people think short sales are these gutter disgusting homes.

We just sold the $900,000 short sale. Most people are just like, “What? This is a short sale?” I’m like, “Yes because the seller did bankruptcy and lost his job and had nothing to do. The house is absolutely beautiful.” That’s a huge misconception.

Matt: You hit the nail on the head and I set you up for that one. I know that oftentimes we think that it’s just about distress in the market. Also, there’s other forms of distress specifically in the homeowner and the person. Thank you for that. Short sales are still coming. They’re still all over the place. I want to take it a little bit into your business and some of the numbers of this and you shared with me that you focus on the listing side, the short sale side. You get for the buyer side. How many units did you guys sell last year?

Nicole: Total with buyer and with the listings, 221.

Matt: Awesome.

Nicole: Now, with just short sales, 146.

Matt: Wow. You’re very listing heavy, very short sale heavy?

Nicole: Yes.

Matt: Are most of your buyers coming from like signs and from leads from those short sales? Where are those buyers coming from?

Nicole: It’s a mix of both? The buyers are coming from, of course, just made calls because we have so many listings, but it’s also coming just from sphere of influence. I’m really out there on social media, people referring over. I’m going to be honest, I don’t even know where my super key is. [laughs] I don’t know buyer like years. I think the last buyer was my sister and I told her, “Figure out where you want to live.”

Most of it just comes– I refer everything out to the team because I practice what I preach. I don’t do anything else but short sales. I tell my agents and the people I mentor, I’m like, “You have to focus on one thing and go all in. That’s how you’re really going to be successful on a high level.” I think that answered your question. I so much.

Matt: How many active listings do you have right now?

Nicole: We’re at a little bit over 147. It’s in that range. It’s crazy because we’ve had massive growth in the last 18 months. We went national a year and a half ago. When we did it, I did it Nicole style, I just went all in. I was like, okay, just kidding. We can’t go into that many markets at once because I’m a salesperson too. I’m the CEO, but I’m a salesperson at heart. I’m saying no to business. No, we’ll figure it out. We’ll figure it out. Then it caught up to us and I was like, okay, we have to narrow it down to these markets where we have boots on the ground because it’s not just in Texas anymore. It’s definitely been crazy. We’re actually trying to get up to 200 listings a month by the end of the year. That’s the 2020 goal.

Matt: Wow.

Matt: Now where are your listings coming from, if you don’t mind? Where are these leads coming in from?

Nicole: 100% referral. I’m 100% referral. We’re doing this on a high level and it’s from realtors, from investors. We now because of our growth and our influence on social media, I’m now getting homeowners coming directly to us but I built my entire business on 100% referral, which is a huge deal because running a business on a high level, it’s a couple of things. I get asked all the time, “How are you able to do that with consistency?” Because you don’t know– The thing is when you’re cold-calling and you’re prospecting, you can gauge, “I got to make this many contacts and then I’m going to get this much business” that when you’re a referral, you’re like, “Have my phone rang today?” [chuckles] Exactly.

It’s consistency with building relationships. Here’s another very simple concept, it’s doing what you say you’re going to do. Having realtors refer to us was a huge deal and it took a really, really long time to earn that trust and respect because most realtors are like, “I’ll figure it out myself.” We’ve been 100% referral for five years now. Before five years, I was getting some referrals. Then I was cold-calling and I’m grateful I don’t have to do that anymore. [laughs]

Matt: There’s a nugget there, guys. If you’re going to work by referral, you must do what you say you’re going to do. In order for that to keep going, that pipeline will dry up if people don’t believe that you’re actually going to fulfill on what you said you were going to do. I’m going to put you on the spot. For those nine markets you are in, what are they so that if we’ve got people that know people there they can refer them to you? What nine markets are you in right now?

Nicole: Pretty much all Texas. Anywhere in Texas, we can service. I just count that as one big market. We have a physical office in Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio but we’re all over in Texas. New Jersey is another market that we’re in. We have a couple of agents there. Florida is going to be our second biggest market and specifically, Miami, Orlando, and then now Tampa. Look I’m doing my cheat sheet on my board. Wisconsin, we are in Boston, Massachusetts, and then I can send you a whole list. That’s all I remember at the top of my head.

Matt: Awesome. Can they find that on your website as well?

Nicole: Yes, they could find that all on my website.

Matt: Awesome, which is?

Nicole: It’s thessqueen.com.

Matt: thessqueen.com?

Nicole: T-H-E-S-Squeen.com and then you’ll have our YouTube channel about us, how you can refer leads to us, how you can get free education. We put a lot of different stuff on there.

Matt: Awesome. Now, I want to ask you a few more things about your business. Obviously, this is going to take a lot of systems to run. To do that many transactions, it’s going to take people, it’s going to take processes. What are some systems, some tools, some technology, people? What have you learned in this process in running a big real estate business?

Nicole: I wrote a book about short sales. It’s called Short Sales Uncensored. I only mentioned that because I could write a whole other book of what not to do when scaling because that has been the biggest pain in the butt, especially as entrepreneurs. I think we assume that if we’re really good at sales, that we have the capacity to be able to run a team at a high level and most people fail because we’re not good leaders and we’re not good at implementing. We’re the visionaries but we’re not the implementers. That has been a crash-and-burn learning experience for me. I think when you’re growing, you have to figure out, why do you want to grow? What is your intent to grow? Is it just because you think bigger is better because I promise it’s not, it just means more bodies, more stress, more everything. My main focus has been now profitability and less growth, which sounds crazy because we equate growth to profitability, but it’s not. You can grow massively and your bottom line sucks, where it’s like, “Why didn’t I just stay small.” That’s honestly been this whole journey, as we expanded, of less focus on growth and more on being profitable. That’s been a huge lesson learned.

As far as systems, I can tell you that if I had to start– This, again, is a whole other podcast of me rebuilding my business. The short version is that I had fired everyone and started over because I was at a capacity of 30 or 40 listings a month and I’m like, “Okay, I can get the business, but why can’t I grow?” It was because I was still in every part of the business. I could not grow, because I’m only one person. I wasn’t hiring intentionally for those roles. I started over. I hired my operations manager.

When you talk about the right people, the best advice I can give if you’re trying to grow a team, or if you’re trying to grow period, is to really figure out who you are. What’s your leadership style? Are you an integrator or are you a visionary? Because if you don’t know what your weaknesses are, you’re going to try to take on a bunch of things that you shouldn’t be. I have the ability to learn new things, but why should I if I need some counterpart, someone else to be able to fill that role, because they’re going to do it better than me, and half the time.

That was really important because, again, I’m a huge visionary. I’ve always seen this big picture but it was so hard to get there. I was failing the entire way to get there, like stumbling, crawling. I was trying to get there because of implementation, because I couldn’t see like, “Okay, well, how do we continue to streamline?” Because that’s not the way I think. The way I think is, “Hey, we’re going to get it done. It may be sloppy, it may be whatever, but we’re going to get it done,” and we could not scale that way.

With this many human beings, which is, by the way, a lot [laughs] of human beings on a monthly basis, the only way that we could scale was integrating this system. We use Infusionsoft. That’s our CRM, and it was waking down my business and saying, “Okay, what are things that we do multiple times a day?” If you look at it that way, you think, “Okay, how can I implement a system, a process, so that we don’t have to keep having the same conversation? Do we record a video? Do we, put, a link there, where people can go there instead?” Things like that, and that was a complete game-changer.

I wish that along my journey, that I would have gotten over myself, and learned from people that were doing this at a high level because I would have come at the place that we are now a lot quicker, and probably would have in a lot less during the way.

Matt: [laughs] I’ve got to unpack some of that because some of that was just so valuable. There was so many good pieces there. I want you guys to hear this, for our listeners, anything that we’re doing multiple times per day, do we need a video? Do we need a checklist? Do we need a system? How do we make this more streamlined, more automated, more leveraged, more simple, so that we can not keep repeating ourselves multiple times per day? I would even go as far as to say, even if we’re doing it multiple times per week, or multiple times per month, if I have to do anything more than three times, we should have a system for that. How do we document it, make it easy? Someone else does it or the computer does it.

Another piece that we’ll go back to was the visionary versus integrator and recognizing who am I? Now, I have to give Nicole props because she’s obviously implemented a lot of things despite being more of the visionary role. Early on, you just scraped by and figured it out. We’re going to get it done. That was her motto.

Nicole: That’s the hustle.

Matt: The hustle. You got to have hustle. If you’re a beginner, you don’t get to get away with no hustle. Don’t hear me that if you’re a visionary, you can just have the vision and never actually do anything. Yet, the visionary puts the hustle in place and then as quickly as possible, finds the next person, the operations manager, that integrator, and says, “Please help me because I’ve got this big vision. We’re going somewhere, but I need you to help me implement those systems.”

There were several but the other nugget that I really want to unpack is why do you want to grow? What’s the real reason you’re growing? Is it ego? Do you need to humble yourself and let somebody else help you? Do you need to just have a small business because growing would not be profitable or will not be beneficial for you? I think sometimes we grow because, “I want to look cool. I want to have those big units. I want to be like Nicole and have 220 units that everyone looks and thinks I’m so amazing.” Instead of saying, “Did I put money in the bank? Did I invest in real estate? Am I building a life for my family? Did I work too many hours I work?” Why do you want to grow?

I can already see that– Maybe Nicole’s learned this, just like I have from the lessons of dealing with people that eventually, you start to grow and you start to grow for the people, for the people that are in your business. Then we as soon as we grow because it’s our ego, and then we realize, “If I don’t like these people, if I’m not making their life better, then I better not be doing this. It’s not worth the time, the energy, the lives, the souls that I’m having to impact unless I have that more altruistic like, okay, we’re going to grow for the people that we’re able to serve, and the people who get to be part of our world. Let’s make sure we get the right people on the bus because otherwise, it’s a sucky bus.”

Nicole: Definitely. [laughs]

Matt: Totally. I love that other piece. We usually ask what your favorite piece of system or technology is and you said Infusionsoft is what you guys use. I’ve used Infusionsoft for a long time as well.

Switching gears for a second, what’s one of the biggest problems that you’re dealing with, that you wish you could solve, or that you would wave a magic wand and try to solve?

Nicole: At the level that we’re at now, honestly, and this is something that is going to be a continual thing, it’s not going to ever change, is hiring. I think that anyone really on a high level is going to tell you the same thing. It’s finding good people because I’ve always had a great culture. I’ve always had phenomenal human beings, but in the beginning, it was they didn’t have the capacity to keep growing. They were great at this certain level but when we kept growing, they couldn’t grow with us. It was understanding people, what their role should be versus what they want it to be.

I think the biggest challenge, honestly, is just human beings. Finding people that align with your vision, that buy into it, and that really care as much as you do because they understand the bigger picture. If I could wave– It would just be like, “Can we hurry up and put the right people? It’s always looking for talent. I think that a lot of times, people find their immediate need and they can’t project their future hires. That’s something that is huge because a lot of times, we just say, “Okay, well, we’re drowning right now. We have this body, okay, we’re good.”

In order to avoid constantly, that drowning, overwhelming feeling, you have to continually look for talent so that you can project the highest for your organization. That was a huge thing for me because I was just like– Again, that whole hustle, get it done mentality really changed my perspective of saying, I don’t want to– I have a business of chaos anymore. I don’t want to have a business that’s stressful, there’s always a fire to put out. There always is going to be even if you don’t do short sales, just in traditional real estate, there’s always going to be fire. Get over it.

Just understand going into it that that’s going to happen. You’re going to be the solution provider in the situation. That would probably be our biggest battle always. Also, it’s exhausting interviewing, it’s exhausting training. It’s just, the whole thing.

Matt: That’s amazing advice. I’m not saying, no, I don’t want to go back. Going back to the very early version of you, the rookie agent version of the brand new agent, what advice would you give yourself that you know now and you wish you knew back then?

Nicole: Well, first of all, if you’re listening to this podcast, you’re already a step ahead of me. I’m just going to put that out there because when I was in the business, we’re so in a world where it’s so blessed to have access to knowledge like this. People are willing to give back because when I got in the business, we had YouTube, but it wasn’t a high level. There wasn’t podcasts that I was aware of, or at least it wasn’t a thing. It was very difficult. Only a few went to seminars and things like that. Even then, they were only giving you like shallow information.

Honestly, there’s no excuse not to educate yourself. There’s no excuse to not dive in and to learn from other people. I wish that I would have valued that more because, again, we go back to ego. I don’t think it was ego, like, “Oh, I could do it all.” I think it was more of, “I’ll figure it out. I got this. I’ll figure out.” That stood in my way of growth for years, and it was very expensive. It was so expensive because I’d be like, “Oh crap, I just threw a couple of grand there. Not getting an ROI. Oh, crap. This system sucks. I should have done it like this.”

Really humbling myself and it wasn’t until I fired everyone that I was like, “Okay, starting from scratch. Let’s figure this out.” I got to the point where I was so overwhelmed. I was broke. I was making a crap ton of money on paper, but I was broke because I was putting all the money back into the business the wrong way. It wasn’t till I got to that point where I was like, “Okay, I can either start over and do this the right way so I can continue to scale or I just quit.” I’m too stubborn to quit. I figured it out.

Matt: That’s awesome. Maybe another piece along this because it goes with that. Would you give any advice to agents to increase their sales? If somebody’s struggling to actually sell the amount of homes they need to make money, what one piece of advice would you give them?

Nicole: Go out there. Get out there. You’re not going to sell houses on your computer at home. You have to be out in the world. We as human beings love to overcomplicate things. We love to try to figure out– People think, “I have to have the perfect website.” Reality check, I was eight years in the business, and then I got a website. Seriously.

Matt: I’ve literally told people that. I’m like, “Website is six months in. Don’t worry about how [unintelligible 00:40:33] three years in. Don’t you worry about a website, just go.” Then you have a business card. Just tell people like, “Oh, I ran out of business cards. Let me text you.” That’s so funny.

Nicole: I don’t even carry my business cards. Yes, I have a big presence on social media, but I stopped doing that a long time ago because I realized from day one that this is a relationship business. How do you build relationships? It’s not figuring out how to order business cards and stressing about your website. Don’t get me wrong, in this day and age. yes, it is fundamental if you’re in luxury or whatever. I can tell you from just in any world or any niche that you’re in, you just have to take action.

If you’re not making sales, it’s because you’re not having enough conversations. It’s because you’re not doing the actions or the income-producing activities that you’re supposed to be doing every day. Not on the days you feel like it, not on the days that you decide or get excited about it. If you’re not seeing the results, it’s because you’re not putting in the right kind of work. The best advice I can give you is to just go out there and have more conversations. It really is that simple.

Matt: That’s amazing. Seriously, I was taking notes as I go. That’s the message that everyone needs to hear. It’s about relationships, and if you’re not getting the success you want, you’re not having enough conversations. It’s not that you didn’t hand out your business card enough. It’s not that you didn’t have a website. It’s that you didn’t have enough person-to-person conversations that resulted in that person trusting you for real estate and then you becoming their advisor, the person that helps them. I love that. You’ve got to have more conversations. You’ve got to build those relationships.

Nicole, I’m going to do a big ask because I heard you mentioned earlier about your book, Short Sales Uncensored. I’m thinking that there’s probably a lot of value in that. Is there a place that our listeners can get access to that? We always like to give something away. Actually, would you be willing to give us the PDF version of that? We’ll put it in the Dropbox and those agents can get access to that.

Nicole: Absolutely.

Matt: Sweet. We’re going to make sure we get Short Sales Uncensored. Now, there’s probably some other resources at your website as well. Again, that was T-H-E-S-Squeen.com and they can check out those other resources. There’s so much. I feel like we could do three podcasts worth of short sale knowledge.

Nicole: I know. [laughs]

Matt: You gave us so much basic value. I do think that if someone’s interested in short sales, or they want to know how to help those people and get maybe referrals off of that, they should go read Short Sales Uncensored. Is there anything, any final thoughts, or any parting wisdom? You gave us so many little value drafts, anything else that we should know?

Nicole: Absolutely. If this is something that you’re wanting to learn more about or figure out if this is what you’re wanting to do, head to our website, thessqueen.com. We have the course. You can buy the book, Short Sales Uncensored. Then the easiest place to go to is YouTube. You subscribe to The Short Sale Queen. We do weekly videos with other top producers, tips on if you are processing short sales. Definitely subscribe to the channel. We’re trying to put out as much value and content as possible to just help the community and put that out there.

Matt: Awesome. Thank you so much. You’ve Been amazing. This has been a great interview. I can’t wait to have you on again. We really appreciate you, Nicole. Talk to you soon.

Nicole: All right. Thanks for having me.

Jeffrey: Good memory.

Paul: You knew no one or almost no one.

Jeffrey: That’s my genius business plan.

Paul: Yes, good business plan. Bad business plan, lots of follow-through.

Jeffrey: Right. Exactly.

Paul: Then you had a career on the Food Network. You had your own show. You were in various contests that I watched you on. It’s great. He’s got a great on-camera presence. You take that into real estate. One of the things that I think is super cool is that Jeffrey started from scratch in a new area and took his business to $1 million in net profit in seven years. I’d just like to know. Let’s start it off with how did you do that?

Jeffrey: It’s like once you commit to something sometimes you’re like, “All right. Now I said it. Now I got to do it.” We moved down here. Like I said, a business where it’s all about knowing people and knowing the place. My wife and I chose to move to a place we knew not at all and where we knew nobody. What do we do, right? I was like, “I like this Bel-Air area. This is pretty.” Everyone was like, “Excuse me. So and so and so and so,” I won’t say the names, “they own that area.” They own it.

Paul: Very common for new realtors. Correct.

Jeffrey: The second they said they own it, it just hit me. You and I have the same stuff that’s it. I looked at them and I go, “They’re renting.”

Paul: I love it. I love it.

Jeffrey: I just started– Because I didn’t know anybody and I didn’t know exactly how the business worked, I actually got a suit on and a tie and went to interview at brokerages to get my license. I thought you actually had to be interviewed. I learned quickly that you don’t. No.

Paul: They’ll take you if you’re breathing.

Jeffrey: I started banging on doors. That was my goal. I’m like, “I know that sellers live in their houses so if I bang on enough doors, I’m going to meet sellers.” At the same time, it was a great way to get that tribal knowledge of the area which is more important than ever.

Paul: I like that. Very interesting, tribal knowledge. I was going to ask you more about the door-knocking. Tell me what’s tribal knowledge?

Jeffrey: I think more than ever as realtors, you can’t be the glorified host. Technology is a gift to great realtors and a nightmare for those that are not. People have traded information for knowledge which is a mistake. There’s plenty of information out there but as great realtors, we need to be the truth filters. We need to actually provide clarity and get to the truth. The client has no lack of info. They’ve got their apps, they’ve got all the resources but if they don’t understand what I call the tribal knowledge, which is for example because you live on this street you know how the sun heats up the side of this house. You know about the cut-through traffic. Whatever it might be.

Those are the nuggets that are really adding value. Anybody can just go, “Oh, here’s a house with four bedrooms, three baths.” That’s why I love door-knocking. You talk to neighbors. You learn a lot about what’s happening. They’re going to be covering up that reservoir in two years because of the new Tourism Act. Now, you’re bringing value to me. I don’t need somebody to find my house, I could find my own house. I don’t need somebody to set up an appointment and show me a house. That’s lovely. That’s not value. To me, as realtors more than ever, we need to exceed expectations, be their confidants, their warriors, and truth filters on that information.

Paul: I definitely have the concept of tribal knowledge and really distilling that down as, “This is my real knowledge of the area, of the farm that I’m working,” and that sort of thing. Can you tell me what would be some good steps for realtors to go out? Let’s say they may not be brand new in their area but maybe they’re fourth or fifth in their area. How do they go from fourth or fifth to second, or third, or first?

Jeffrey: It’s easier than ever because of technology. At the beginning, for example, I said, “Okay. My goal is I will never have anyone ask me if I’m new. I said, “All right. So how do I achieve that?” Well, just because I’m new in getting my license, nothing is stopping me from memorizing contracts and asking great questions. Nothing is stopping me from knowing the inventory.” I would literally go to every open house Sunday, Saturday, Tuesday, whatever it was, brokers. I created files and now it’s all electronic. I would put the property in there with my notes. “Oh, backs up to a mountain. Has the view, doesn’t have the view. Sun hits this side, southwest, east, west, whatever it was.

I’d put my guesstimate of what it would sell for and I would go back and check myself. I started building that kind of mine database of my expertise. The more I can know about inventory and the more I can meet neighbors and local businesses and start to understand the community, I can bring that value. To answer your question very directly, the first step is master the inventory because nobody’s stopping you. You can drive by a house anytime day or night. Be careful what you’re doing these days. Don’t be too close to the front door. You could go out, and look, and see, and understand what’s going on in the neighborhoods.

Broker’s caravan is another great opportunity. Anybody that doesn’t go on a caravan every Tuesday, I don’t understand how you call yourself a realtor. That’s our only chance to see the inventory. What I do is I first say, “All right. What clients do I have that need me?” I got Paul Morris. He wants to be in Santa Monica. That’s my first objective.

Second, I say, “What area am I going to always own? For me, for example, it’s Bel-Air. I got to see everything in Bel-Air no matter what. Third, what’s a new area where I can expand my knowledge? Let me go swing through downtown LA and start to understand some of their laws. LA is a big place and the real estate is big. You can’t be an expert in just one area in my opinion. People do it and it’s great. I did it for many years. We’re experts in real estate especially with the available information these days. I think you would want to constantly expand your horizons that way.

Paul: Got it. Backing up just a little bit to give our viewers an idea, what sort of volume do you do? What are your units? What are you doing now?

Jeffrey: I had the five-year break with Food Network. Basically, in 19 years we’re well over half a billion dollars in sales, my wife and I. Really, we’ve lost count. 50 houses a year is a good year. We’re blessed in real estate. You better work really hard because we are the only industry where you get constant free raises for doing no more work. Our clients keep getting wealthier so guess what, our own house is now $4 million, $5 million. The same amount of work. If somebody is selling houses in the Midwest somewhere, you’re making significantly more money. You owe it to those clients to be better than ever. We can do less houses these days and still make more money because our average price is up as well which is nice.

Paul: Correct. What’s your number one source for listings may be outside of your sphere?

Jeffrey: Number one outside? Outside of repeat referral? Outside of geo-farming which is like a neighborhood, and then it would be open houses. We’ve always done very well in open houses.

Paul: When you talk about open houses, you said outside geo-farming. What are you doing in your farm area?

Jeffrey: Really, nothing ground-breaking. You know why I love real estate too? It’s like you always said, funny enough, bad plan but well-executed. In real estate, we are blessed because it’s not about what you do. Everyone’s looking for, “Oh, this postcard thing. Is my picture good? How did your picture? Just send it out. It doesn’t matter.

Paul: It seems like that would be an important focus for sure.

Jeffrey: It’s just not. What matters is I think Amelia had said it, “The best way to get anything done is to do it. Just do.

Paul: That’s correct.

Jeffrey: Consistency is the key. All we do is consistently send a postcard out to all of Bel-Air every three weeks.

Paul: That’s your farm, you got at Bel-Air? You’re sending out one postcard every three weeks to your farm?

Jeffrey: Yes. We are doing some very focused Facebook-type ads which are no longer allowed. Now, email campaign is still a huge source for us.

Paul: Are you still door-knocking?

Jeffrey: Honestly, no. I’ve gotten very lazy. I’ve shifted the physical energy to mental energy because our database is so huge now. I’ve really been just grinding the CRM because those are the people that already love us. We’ve already shown them great results. There’s an abundance. It’s like an endless goldmine if you tap into it. It’s amazing how many people don’t. We just sold a house for a guy that we sold 17 years ago to him. He was a kid.

Paul: That’s great.

Jeffrey: I have kept in touch with him for 17 years. I still do. The reason I say no is because I’m not being consistent but I still do my drive-bys. I’ll just pull-over and I’ll say, like everything life, “Just do the first door,” and then sure enough you end up doing 20. Do the first push up?

Paul: That’s right.

Jeffrey: You do 108 like you.

Paul: Correct.

Jeffrey: You’ve just got to promise yourself, let me do the first pushup.

Paul: Got it. You started your business door-knocking. Bel-Air, for people that don’t know, is a place that people will literally tell you, “You cannot door-knock.” The houses are behind gates, so there’s a lot of energy knocking the first door. It takes a lot of guts to get out there and knock doors. Why don’t people knock doors? It’s uncomfortable. Tell me about how do you start? How many houses did you knock a day? Give me that rundown.

Jeffrey: That’s one of the most important questions, Paul, because what you said is so right on. I’ll never forget, because, after a year of door knocking, I look at my wife, I’m like, “I might as well be selling Bibles or something.” I’m walking up the street in a suit, sweating. What an idiot. What am I doing? I haven’t had one sale. I’m banging on these doors for a year.

Everything great that has happened in my life, it’s started with mindset. In that moment when I was talking to her, and talking to my real estate coach, I just shifted it. I said, “You know what? I’m not the cheesy, sweaty salesman. I’m the mayor of Bel-Air.”

Paul: I like it.

Jeffrey: I’m going to walk up this street like I own it. I’m going to look forward to being a resource and to being these people’s most valuable guy. The day I knock and they’re ready to sell, it’s me. I am building an empire. Once I shifted my mindset, it got really a lot easier. I’ll walk my shoulders were a little higher. I even sweat a little less, even though it was 90 degrees. You need to start here like everything in life, for sure. After that, it’s like what gets measured gets done. I had a thing where I just had to do a minimum of 50 doors a day. I knew that if I did 50 doors a day, a third of them would open, so I’d make about 15 contacts. My goal was always, how fast can I get out of there because I was a direct guy.

Paul: That’s super important. I like it.

Jeffrey: A lot of people are into this whole, “Hey, I’m bringing my some gardening tips.

Paul: Let’s talk about gardening for a half hour.

Jeffrey: Here’s mine. I knock, you answer the door.

Paul: Yes. Hi.

Jeffrey: Hey, how are you? It’s Jeffrey Saad, the neighborhood expert. I just wanted to see if this is the year you’re thinking about selling your home?

Paul: No, I’m not selling this year.

Jeffrey: Nice, but I’ve seen you around. You guys have been here a long time.

Paul: Yes, we’ve been here 10 years.

Jeffrey: Very good. It’s a great place to be. I’m not going to convince you to leave, but when you’re ready, keep in mind, Jeffrey Saad. By the way, Paul– and I’ll walk away because I want them to know this is over. Nobody likes this.

Paul: Yes, correct.

Jeffrey: When you go like this, they tend to be a little more comfortable. Anybody you know that could need us, a friend that’s looking for something in another area? We do stuff all over the city.

Paul: Okay, great. Well, thanks. I appreciate the brevity of the visit. Thanks for doing that. People knock on my door. I always find it very interesting, because I’m going to say, “Hey, let me see what these people are going to say.” I think just the idea is a phenomenal tip to not linger.

Jeffrey: Yes. People are busy. Respect their time. Don’t beat around the bush.

Paul: Yes, I like it.

Jeffrey: Nobody wants to pretend that you’re there to help them with gardening or to drop off tomatoes. It’s like, I’m a real estate pro. You need help? Here I am. You don’t, I’m out of here. I don’t want to bug you. I don’t want to waste my time either. Nothing is worse than somebody that invites you in to show you their book collection and this and that. It’s great if it’s a sincere connection moment like hey, we both love books or whatever. Otherwise, I don’t want to spend 20 minutes there and you don’t need me there for 20 minutes if this is not what you’re doing.

Paul: It’s a very purposeful use of your time.

Jeffrey: Yes, and respectfully.

Paul: Are you leaving something behind when you go?

Jeffrey: That’s the other big joke. People will spend all their time planning on what to leave to the point where they never actually make it to the door. It’s like, I’ve got to have the whole package right. I just said I’m pulling over, where’s my car? I’m taking it. Typically, what I would do and I still have these because I use them in open houses when I do knock, but it’s a notepad. The front page of the notepad is a recipe because I’m also a chef, and then the rest of it is a blank pad. I put my card in there, and then I put a listing that we’re marketing or recap or summary of what’s going on in the hood.

Paul: We heard from Jeffrey that he was going from nobody to Mayor of Bel-Air. One of the keys to that was door-knocking. I want to dial in a little bit and ask you about– We’ve got a great script for door knocking, very simple, I like it. We’ve got a little body language for door-knocking. That’s great. I like it. They just do it. Don’t worry about the stuff as much as just do the door knocking. You were knocking how many a day?

Jeffrey: 50.

Paul: 50 a day?

Jeffrey: Yes.

Paul: That would take you approximately how long?

Jeffrey: I’d bag it out pretty quick, an hour and a half max because again, my goal was quick at each door, and two-thirds of people aren’t going to answer. They’re just not home.

Paul: When they’re not home, you leave something?

Jeffrey: Always.

Paul: Okay. I will ask, I know doing it is more important than the what, but tell me what you left.

Jeffrey: I would always leave a pad, a recipe at the top, no pad underneath, so hopefully it has some value, business card, something that we’re working on, like hey, here’s our open house this Sunday, or some snapshot nuggets, did you know type bite-sized pieces of info about the neighborhood.

Paul: It’s some information that’s going to establish you as the mayor of Bel-Air.

Jeffrey: Exactly.

Paul: You’re the information source for the area.

Jeffrey: Exactly.

Paul: You’re doing 50 a day basically five days a week. I know you’re a discipline guy. I would imagine you didn’t miss many days.

Jeffrey: Not many.

Paul: How long did it take for you to get your first sale from door knocking?

Jeffrey: There’s something I always like to say. Until you’re sick to your stomach, nothing great is going to happen.

Paul: Wow.

Jeffrey: If you’re comfortable, you’re going nowhere or you’re headed down. I kept reminding myself of that and I was sick to my stomach because it was over a year, Paul. Over a year before I even got an inkling of a maybe. Fast forward, which didn’t happen fast, 5 years, 6 years, 10, 12 years. Hundreds of thousands of income a year, which was now passive because of the time I put in. All of a sudden, they just call, “Hey, we’re ready.” I’d knock and they’d be like– I would joke because they’d be like, “Jeffrey” I’m like, “They know my name.” Once you know they know your name-

Paul: You’re all the way in there.

Jeffrey: You’ve gotten that. We’re not ready, we’re good to see you. Then all of a sudden it was like we’re ready. We’re ready. Let’s do this. Let’s do this. All of a sudden it’s like, “Wow. It worked.” It’s never all eggs all in one basket. That was part of my plan. That way if you’re putting all your eggs in one basket, well then you can’t afford to wait a year or five years for deals.

Paul: Correct.

Jeffrey: If you’re making it part of a plan you believe in, then each harvest sprouts when it’s ready.

Paul: You knew that knocking the doors is number one was really going to give you knowledge of your area and it was going to give you name and face recognition in that area. That’s a really good plan to become mayor, even though this particular activity which is grueling. It’s the thing. It’s one of the things realtors like to do the least, I think. Doing an hour and a half a day. I love how really efficient you are with your time. I think that’s a phenomenal tip. It’s not something I’d thought about. You want the people to answer and you want the– You’re not going to sell their house right now anyway.

Jeffrey: Good picture.

Paul: You want the transaction or the conversation to go as fast as you can. “Here I am. I’m Jeffrey Saad. I know the area. Are you going to sell this year?” “No.” Okay, great. Let me leave. Oh, wait, we hit them with this stuff first and I liked that. Then on the way out you’re like, “Hey, in case, you know anybody that’s looking to buy or sell anywhere in the city, please think of us to refer?”

Jeffrey: Yes.

Paul: I like that.

Jeffrey: I think it’s more valuable than ever with our technology age because nobody is doing it. It’s another way to stand out. There’s two other nuggets you get from this. Number one, it’s an exercise, never a bad thing. Number two, the tribal knowledge. Guess what? In our busy lives, you’re down the street, your car, but when you’re door knocking, you’re there. All of a sudden, you’re noticing the way the sun hits. You’re seeing whose cars are there, you’re noticing a storage bin going up. I wonder if they’re selling. They’re packing stuff up. You start to appreciate and get visceral with the area. That’s very different than being a fly-out all the time.

Paul: You can’t say enough about your consistency over time. I’m not making this up. I talked to a realtor and she’s great. She told me she did, I think 40 houses the day before. She’s like, “I got no leads.” There you go. It didn’t pass the laugh test. There’s your answer, right?

Jeffrey: Of course not.

Paul: I immediately thought of Jeffrey. I was like let me tell you, I have a friend that went from zero to $1 million net. Not GCI, $1 million net in seven years. What I remembered was he didn’t make a sale from door-knocking in six months. I didn’t realize it was a year.

Jeffrey: You know what else happens? I know you’re a firm believer of this too, Paul, which is one of the many reasons I love you, but it’s the energy you put out in the world.

Just like door-knocking, you are telling the universe that you expect business. As funny as it sounds just door-knocking even if you didn’t get the deal, it’s getting you business.

Paul: You’re out there saying, “Hey, you know what? I deserve this business. I’m here. I deserve this business.” That’s going to bring you business. Even if it’s not from that house, it will bring you business from your other areas, from your networking. You mentioned technology. One thing that a lot of our listeners want to know is what’s the best lead-producing system out there, or what’s the best phone app? Or what are you finding out there in terms of technology that helps you?

Jeffrey: The best lead-producing system which I think everybody’s heard of is pick it up and call. It is just that simple. There never was, will be a better system than, hey Paul, just wanted to check in how are you doing. Any real estate needs? What’s going on? How’s Sarah? How’s this? How’s that? Touching base. Now there are systems that make those calls easier.

We have an in-house CRM that I use that I love more than ever. Every day it pops up. Let’s face it. No matter how driven you are, if you got an email that pops up and says call these 10 people now, it’s a lot easier. That’s what I like because I need to be pushed. I’m a huge fan of what gets measured gets done. If the thing pops up every day and says call these 10, I’m going to call those 10. A good CRM is gold.

Paul: I’ve got the consistency piece from you. I think one of the things that we really want to nail for our listeners is that what gets measured gets done because you really get a lot of stuff done and you’re measuring it. How are you measuring it?

Jeffrey: Ironically, I’ve gotten less and less in measuring it because I’ve been doing it for 20 years and now I’m focusing more on bringing my best self and just deciding what’s going to come to me. That’s another conversation. For many, many years, over a decade, 12 years, I literally had a business plan and I said, I’m going to knock on 50 doors, I’m going to call X amount of people. I’m going to sell this many houses. These many of them will be buyers. These many will be sellers. Again, it’s not that it ever went like that. I do believe that I would hit my numbers because that was the intention I was putting out there.

Paul: Let me ask you this because I know that you were one of the– I would say Jeffrey wrote the book on scripts. The reason why I said that is because you were in a coaching program, you’re a new guy and you’re like, “Hey, you know what? Let me–” I remember.

Jeffrey: You’re right. That was 20 years ago.

Paul: You had the script cards. Jeff, the coach had the script cards, but who wrote the script cards with probably 100 clients? Jeffrey wrote the script cards. I remember that for sure. I know over time you’ve told me that your scripts have changed and modified. One of the things we do for the Rockstar Nation is we always have a gift. It’s so generous for you to donate your time. In addition, we give a gift. One of the things that Jeffrey said certainly I was thinking about what would be great. I know you’re king of scripts. Said I’m going to give us the top 10 scripts and put that in the toolbox for us.

Jeffrey: It’s a pleasure.

Paul: Really appreciate that. Why don’t you share with us top two or three scripts that you’re using right now?

Jeffrey: Absolutely. Well, let me preface it by saying as a realtor there is no excuse to ever not be ready for anything that comes your way. Why? Because it’s always the same stuff. There are no surprises. I say that I’ll have a room full of 100 agents, good agents. I’ll say how many of you pick up the phone and are surprised by a call or not ready for response? Most of them raised their hand. How can that be?

Paul: Interesting.

Jeffrey: This is what we do every day. There are no surprises. That’s why scripts are so important. Think of scripts like a language. If you study the words long enough, all of a sudden it just flows and you’re like [foreign language].

Paul: Correct.

Jeffrey: You’re not thinking how do I translate how are you in Spanish? If you make the scripts visceral to who you are, they’ll start to morph into your own personality, but there’s no excuse not to have the answer. Some of my favorites these days are with overpriced listings. That’s a whole pet peeve of mine. Anyway, because I think as pros, we need to get these listings at the right price and have the hard honest conversation upfront instead of I’ll take it at any price and hope for the best momentarily.

Paul: Correct.

Jeffrey: Even when you take it away, you think is the right price sometimes is over price, so that the seller will be reluctant to change the price. This is power. It has worked every time. I just go, “Paul, you were going to hate me for this. The reason we’re not selling is because you’re still the highest bidder.”

Paul: I want to sell. I guess I don’t want to be the highest bidder.

Jeffrey: Until you don’t want the house more than everybody else, it’s going to sit with no offers. Right now, this price is your price and nobody else wants it for that price.

Paul: Is there something we could do to market it better, I see that Facebook I don’t really know how it works. A lot of these people are really marketing the houses, is there something we can do to market it better to get the price I want? What about the overseas buyers?

Jeffrey: I can see you’re feeling you’re just reaching, there’s got to be a way to get my number, right?

Paul: Yes, correct.

Jeffrey: That doesn’t feel good. It doesn’t feel good when you show the people house is selling.

Paul: Yes, correct.

Jeffrey: The truth Paul, do you want me to hold back on my expertise?

Paul: No, probably not.

Jeffrey: You seem like we’ve always been straight with each other, the truth is Paul, the whole world knows about your house. If there’s a buyer, they know about your house and that’s the insights to logistics that we talked about. I’ve sent you 80 to 100 people have already seen this house, clicked on it, spend a minute 84 seconds on it, the only last thing they haven’t done-

Paul: Is written an offer.

Jeffrey: -is the price. How long would you like to be on the market before we get an offer?

Paul: I’d like to have sold it yesterday, I want to sell it yesterday at the price that I want, right? Of course.

Jeffrey: I know it doesn’t feel good.

Paul: No, for sure.

Jeffrey: You’re probably thinking why do my agent price it like this, how do we get here?

Paul: Yes.

Jeffrey: What would you like to do now?

Paul: We got to sell the house, I’d like your recommendation.

Jeffrey: But still I think if we reduced to X it’s going to happen.

Paul: Okay. I love the script. You’re the highest bidder, the script is right now you’re the highest bidder on the house.

Jeffrey: Because it’s just the truth. I think it’s really important more than ever to preference to all these scripts with trying to sincerely acknowledge how they feel.

Paul: For sure.

Jeffrey: To call out the elephant in the room, I do that all the time, you must think you hired the worst agent in the world, how can it not be sold? I just put it out there because I don’t want [crosstalk].

Paul: You’re saying that I’m not saying it and as soon as I say it I believe that we’re in trouble?

Jeffrey: Yes and if you really believe it then we need to have that conversation too. That’s another piece of my script that I love is a lot of sellers do exactly what Paul just did. What about Facebook, what about that Chinese buyer I read about?

Paul: Absolutely.

Jeffrey: You have to acknowledge what they’re feeling, which’s they’re feeling the sense of desperation that everything is out there and some people will take it further than Paul and I’ll finally say, “It sounds like you may feel like you hired the wrong agent.”

Paul: You have the courage to do that.

Jeffrey: You have to because is what they’re thinking anyway is people are always afraid that if you call it a negative you raised the negative? It is the opposite. When you call it a negative, is the Chris boss thing which’s really powerful, it’s another nugget for your listeners is you’ll never split the difference as a great [crosstalk].

Paul: Yes, correct.

Jeffrey: You got to call that out and because then what I will say if I follow up which is so great is, they’ll say “Well could you be doing other different things that tah-tah maybe we should hire another realtor.” I say, “Let me ask you, Paul, what are you going to have that realtor do that we’re not doing?”

Paul: I don’t know, I’m not the expert in the area maybe we hire somebody that’s sold a bunch more houses than you have or who knows. I appreciate your frankness but I’m going to be frank back to you.

Jeffrey: I appreciate that. If you’re not sure what they should do differently how are you going to know who to hire?

Paul: I don’t know I picked you because you’re the Mayor of Bel-Air but I do see some upcoming people that are a little younger, I hate to say it maybe they have their pulse on the young crowd that was buying some houses up here, I don’t know.

Jeffrey: It sounds like a younger agent may be a better option for you?

Paul: I guess I don’t know.

Jeffrey: I’m not fighting him telling he’s wrong what do you mean a younger agent? I’m experienced, no. I’m just trying to get to the truth and if that’s not what you really thinking but then I’ll find. It sounds like you just need to somehow feel comfortable that you still got the right guy and we’re moving forward.

Paul: Yes, that’s true.

Jeffrey: What information could I give you to make you comfortable that you still made the right choice and how do we work together to have a strategy moving forward? Lots of hows, lots of whats, lots of it seems like, and in trying to understand where you’re at.

Paul: Sure, okay I like that.

Paul: Hey Rockstar Nation? We were doing a little out-take when we took a break Jeffrey was still on me, the door-knocking scripts so we caught a great live moment, really appreciate it, and let’s show you that moment.

Jeffrey: Did you ask them if they wanted to sell? They’re like, “Well, isn’t that obvious. I understand because I have a listing. Ask and when you ask with a smile and that way but I’ll be here when you need me and by the way resources we’re doing projects construction, revenue, call me I’ll get for you. Oh, so and so is telling me about the dog part. I don’t know anything about the dogs. I’ll say yes, you don’t like it’s not– You’re just being direct be sincere be you.

You got a great smile and you have great image at the end it’s a people’s business, it’s about connection, people appreciate more than ever, they appreciate the truth and they value their time. I even say that sometimes I read their face, they look like they just got off the phone screaming at whatever .

I go, “You look like you had a busy morning and I am the last thing you need to see, I’m going to go just want you to know realtor neighborhood. Then they put it’s okay but if I had started off with, “Hey,” and they were ready to kill somebody, guess what? I had people the same people who said, “Get out of here, you don’t have an appointment don’t ever knock on my door.” I go back in a few months. I go back and guess what? The same person goes, “Oh, hey, you’re healthy, come in.” You’re like, guess what? We’re all human. Don’t take it personally you’re there with one simple mission and you’re going to beat it to the death consistently until your dreams come true and made it to win as well.

Crew: Cool.

Paul: Tell us the script again from the script.

Jeffrey: Yes don’t ask your wife knock, knock?

Crew: Hey, I got you?

Jeffrey: Hey, how are you? Jeffery Saad, the local real estate expert just making my usual rounds, is this the year [crosstalk].

Paul: Tell him we’re busy right now.

Jeffrey: This is not going to be your year then you need me to get out of here. Just keep in mind the future if you ever need to sell I’m around, Jeffery take care. Thank you sorry to interrupt. Most times I set myself doing that, they’re going to go ask you what tell me. It’s really about being sensitive and reading. If they’re doing one of these and I’m on the phone then I’m just like I give them the pad and I just fade away and they appreciate that but it’s just consistency and you can’t be afraid.

Crew: come back anymore.

Jeffrey: They never will even when you do appointment what do you think– My wife thought I was nuts ran back to the house. He was as nice it can be. We’re all human we’re all different moods but if you’re consistent and you’ll get them when they’re ready and that’s the beauty of it. It’s not even like you say the magic right thing when they’re ready to sell if last night at dinner they were saying, “What do you think, honey? Should we do this?” You’re going to get that conversation. Otherwise, they’re not ready. You’re only hoping that you avail when they’re ready, or when they are ready, they’ll remember you.

Paul: Jeffery hits it out of the park with the script. I’m going to drive right in because I know Rockstar Nation, you guys deal a lot with some of these tough questions. We’ve got, the commission is compressed. Jeffery, you did a fabulous presentation. I love you. You’ve been knocking on my door for 15 years, man. I know you don’t want to lose this listing opportunity. Let’s face facts. There’s a lot of dumps on the street. I’ve done a phenomenal job. I have fabulous taste. I’ve done a great job here. This house is going to sell itself.

Jeffery: It’s a gorgeous house. It sounds like you’re ready to talk about commission?

Paul: Yes. That’s right.

Jeffery: You want to know how much I charge?

Paul: Yes, correct.

Jeffery: More than most people you’ll talk to, and definitely more than you want to pay.

Paul: Okay, because I talked to some other realtors. There’s a guy, he does his big LA Times presence, use a lot of print ad, which I know is expensive. He’s going to do the wine and cheese at my house, the whole bit.

Jeffery: Nice.

Paul: Not the cheap stuff. He’s willing to do this house. This is a couple of million dollars. He wants to do the house at 1.5%.

Jeffery: You know, Paul, there are people that could do it for less.

Paul: I do want a professional. This guy is a professional.

Jeffery: It sounds like it’s intriguing to you somebody who sells the most houses?

Paul: Sure.

Jeffery: Are you interested in me getting you the most money for your house?

Paul: Absolutely, of course.

Jeffery: Let me ask you, Paul because listen, I get it, commission matters. This is a masterpiece.

Paul: Yes.

Jeffery: Every dollar you walk away with matters. Tell me why you’re selling. What’s going on? Every penny is going to matter. The last thing you want to do is give money away you don’t have to give away because that affects your net.

Paul: Yes. I love you. You do a good job. I’ve got to tell you, I think realtors are overpaid.

Jeffery: It’s a lot of money. Let’s talk about it. $2 million, 6%. We’re talking about $120,000 you’re going to pay me. Of course, half it goes to the other agent. It sounds like that’s just something you don’t even want to pay.

Paul: That’s correct. $120,000 is not in the ballpark. What the other guy was saying was, admittedly, he was going to take 1.5, he was talking about 2.5 to the other side. We’re talking about 4%. Easy math, you’re talking about-

Jeffery: 40 grand.

Paul: -Yes, correct.

Jeffery: 40 grand is a lot of money.

Paul: Correct. Absolutely.

Jeffery: I get that. Would it be a stretch to believe that the net amount you walk away with is driven by the sales price more than anything?

Paul: No. We’re still talking about a small percent. Correct. The total sales price is going to drive the money in my pocket. That’s true.

Jeffery: Do you think that your house will sell for a fixed price no matter what? That there’s a magical number out there it’s already going to sell for so all that needs to happen is negotiate the commission?

Paul: I’d probably sell it myself if I thought that realtors didn’t add value. I don’t disagree with that. My issue is my expectation because you beat me up on the price already. I think the house could sell for more, but you’ve convinced me that the way to do this is to price this thing. You showed me all the data. I’m trying to take that data and go with the other guy because now I’m already taking a hit on the price. I’m going to do that, because you’ve convinced me, but I’ve got somebody else. He’s got a big presence in the area too and he’s going to charge, so now I’m going to say 40 grand because I was thinking two-

Jeffery: I get it.

Paul: Now I’m down to $2 million.

Jeffery: I get it. Paul. Let me ask you. If you don’t believe there’s a magically fixed price, what is it that gets you the highest possible price?

Paul: I think marketing is going to help, I think the way somebody shows the house is important. I want to stick around and make sure it’s done right.

Jeffery: Just based on our conversation, Paul, it is clear to me you are a negotiator.

Paul: Sure. That’s right.

Jeffery: Do you believe negotiating makes a difference?

Paul: Sure. I don’t think there should be a fixed price on your commission either.

Jeffery: I appreciate that, and this is why I like working with you, but it’s also, Paul, the reason I have to say no to you is because, if I say yes, you shouldn’t hire me. If I can’t even negotiate for my own commission, my own hard-earned compensation, what am I going to do for your money?

Paul: I get that.

Jeffery: Just tell me this, Paul. If you can tell me this, we can make progress in this. How do these correlate, the person that can’t negotiate for themselves is going to negotiate for you, thus make you more money?

Paul: Because I’m going to kick them in the rear end and make sure when I’ve already lowered my price to 2 million, I think based on the stuff you’ve told me, we’re going to drive more traffic through the house, actually we’re going to go 1999, whatever so that when people put the search thing in for under 2 million, we’re going to capture all those people. I think your strategy we’ll get over 2 million, but I’m going to be right here. I’m going to be shoulder-to-shoulder with the realtor that’s charging 1.5. When he says, “Hey, let’s take it for a million and 850, I’m going to be like, “No way, my man. Get back in there. Do your job.”

Jeffery: You are so good, Paul, but let me tell you something that’s going to blow your mind. Do you want to hear one of the biggest secrets in real estate?

Paul: Sure.

Jeffery: By the time the agent you’re shoulder-to-shoulder with gives you the number, it’s already been pre-negotiated. I’m going to be getting you more money before you ever even have a chance to respond because that’s my job, Paul. When people ask me in an open house you’re right. The company is important. We already agree you love the company. The marketing is great. It’s what gets people to that front door, but what gets you the most money, Paul, is what happens when people walk through that front door. I’m what happens when they walk through that front door. When they say to me, “How much will the seller take?” classic question. Do you know what I say, Paul?

Paul: Tell me.

Jeffery: I didn’t talk to him yet, but I know he’ll take more. They laugh, and I laugh and I’ve established the floor. This house is worth it, because the energy the agent gives off, sets the tone for the beginning. When that guy Mr. 1.5, for whatever reason, doesn’t seem to value himself enough. Does that bother you that he doesn’t place enough value on his skills to ask for a full fee?

Paul: He sees 30-40 grand as a pretty good fee. We’re going to sell this house. You told me you think we’d sell this house and we’d get it on our contract in a couple of weeks.

Jeffery: Guaranteed, but now we’re talking about how much you walk away with. Those are two different conversations. Let me ask you, can you name one other industry, one other profession where the better people don’t get paid more?

Paul: Probably not.

Jeffery: Paul, I’m the better person and I would love to work with you, but I will never give up on making you the most money, which is why I cannot give away my hard-earned money because my goal simply, Paul, as I’ve told you, is not to do the most sales but to make the most money from each client.

Paul: Let me ask you this. I also know you like to move fast. I like to move fast. Cut the chase with me. If I say, forget the 1.5. I’ll do it with you at five. If you’re not doing it at five, I’m done.

Jeffery: I’ve got to say no, Paul.

Paul: You’re going to walk away from this deal?

Jeffery: Now we’re down to a point. What we’re saying is 20,000. If you don’t think that my skill set is going to bring you at least an extra 20,000, not to mention everything else we’ve talked about, and defending your best interest, don’t hire me.

Paul: We’re not talking about 20,000 because the other guy’s going to do it for 70,000 less. You’re talking about split the difference, right? I’ve listened to that guy. Okay, great, I’m not even splitting the difference. I’m coming all the way over to you, so you’ve got to meet me somewhere.

Jeffery: It sounds like now, Paul, you just aren’t going to feel good about this unless you get something.

Paul: Yes, that’s right. Just give me something. Give me something to go back and tell my wife that this is the first time my whole life in negotiation I didn’t get a little something.

Jeffery: Here’s what you can give her, that you absolutely found the best guy that’s going to make you the most money.

Paul: You’re going to say no at 5%?

Jeffery: I just can’t do it.

Paul: Okay, there you go.

Jeffery: No is the most powerful negotiating tool on the planet because if he sees how convicted– It’s actually true, by the way. I am my clients’ warrior and negotiator. I had a client– By the way, a story is always better than a spreadsheet. We had this sale right down the hill here, $4 million. We were already setting a record. No, 4.5. We already were going to be setting a record, by far in every way.

We got an offer for 4.3. My seller always goes straight to his brother who’s an attorney. He comes back to me with exactly what his brother says. I go, “Here we go again.” I say, “So what did your brother say?” He said, “He told me sign it, you idiot.”

Paul: Wow.

Jeffery: I said, “Don’t sign it. I can get you another 50,000 and this is all cash two weeks. You need at least three weeks’ leaseback. You’re moving everything to Tennessee. If you screw this up–” I said, “I understand the moving parts. I’m going to get you the 50,000 and the three weeks.” I got him the 50,000 and the 3 weeks. He

is forever blown away, because I live by what I say I’m going to do. It makes all the difference. As a realtor, you have to decide your value and then gravitate towards that group of clients. When you’re a discounter, you’ll attract discount people which comes with a different mentality. I like Paul so much, and you’re so amazing and this house is so amazing. Are there times where I’ll just say, “Tell you what I’m going to do?” Absolutely, Paul, I am not going to let you go back to your wife with nothing in hand.

Paul: That’s pulling a heartstring on that one.

Jeffrey: I’m here to have a long-term relationship. I’ll tell you what I’m going to do, we’re going to do it for 5.5. I’m going to take three because I’m your warrior and confidant. I’m going to give the buying agent 2.5 because they’re used to that anyway. How’s that, 5.5?

Paul: Okay. Here’s the thing, when I do a script with somebody like Jeffrey, I’m really putting my heart and soul. It felt real to me.

Jeffrey: Dude, you were amazing. I’d pour some sweat here, really because that’s what they do.

Paul: Yes, hard ones. It felt real to me. I was very uncomfortable saying no to you. I just wanted to say no so that we could get the really, really tough because I’m already sold. I’m like, “This guy’s great. I know he’s going to work his rear end off.”

Jeffrey: That’s the point, Paul. Sorry to interrupt you but you just said listen, because that was the most important point of this whole podcast. I’m not going to lose it over commission. If I lose it, it’s because you aren’t convinced I’m the guy. You said it. I already know you’re the guy.

Paul: It’s true.

Jeffrey: Now the commission is a by the way. You don’t lose deals over commission. Usually, you lost it because you didn’t convince somebody you were after.

Paul: I appreciate the depth in which we went into this.

Jeffrey: [laughs].

Paul: I think there’s something to this, especially because you’re so good at it. Another one that we talked about doing was getting the right price for the house. Should we do that one?

Jeffrey: Sure.

Paul: Is there another one that you think is better?

Jeffrey: Listen, they’re all so valuable. Again, you are going to have these every time. These are not a surprise.

Paul: That’s correct.

Jeffrey: If you’re not ready for these, you’re just not prepared. You’re not a pro.

Paul: That’s correct.

Jeffrey: You owe it to yourself, to your family, and your clients to be prepared and be a pro because it’s going to be the same questions every time. I look forward to these. I’m so prepared.

Paul: Okay. I think a lot of realtors are actually–

Jeffrey: Fearing it.

Paul: Oh, yes. They’re fearing it. I know we’re going to get there. You know what? I already know I’m going to give in. I know I’m going to give in. I’m not going to let a $2 million sale go down the drain when everybody in the area is doing it 4%.

Jeffrey: When more than ever we have to differentiate ourselves. Ironically, in a compressed market is when you should charge more than ever because you’ve got to stand out. Otherwise, you’re saying, “Yes, I’m a little better than the other guy, but not really that much so no.”

Paul: I’m going to stand out by charging more?

Jeffrey: Yes. You want the best, you pay for the best. You don’t, I get it. Listen, don’t stop at 1.5. I know a guy who’ll do it for nothing.

Paul: Now I’ll ask you the tough question outside of the script. Great. It took you seven years. It’s a dramatically, rocket launch shoot to a million dollars net a year for sure. In your first six months, because people are going to listen and they go, “You know what? He’s already making this and he’s already in this price point and he’s already whatever, it’s easy for him to say.” What were you doing when you were a newer agent and you needed the money?

Jeffrey: You know what, I always said for me, you have to ask yourself what is more painful, doing the thing that you need to do or dealing with the pain of not getting the result because you didn’t do the thing you needed to do? For me, the pain of not doing what I committed to is always greater. If it’s about the money and you need the money, you will always need the money and you will never be comfortable.

You have to be able to not, and it’s not easy but you have to do it. You have to look them right in the eye. I had a guy buying a car not too long ago and he’s like,” Oh, by the way, this is all going great but I just want to clarify he’s the buyer, that you’re going to give me a point back.” I said, “Thank you so much for your honesty and for bringing that up. No.”

Paul: You didn’t say, “You can walk from here.”?

Jeffrey: No. I just said no. He was speechless. He’s like, “My last agent did it when we sold in San Diego.” I go, “Wow, that must have been a nice perk.” I said, “Listen, what I can do for you is promise that I’m going to defend your best interest, finding the greatest house, negotiate on your behalf, make sure you’re happy, and that you pay as least as you have to pay and that you don’t end up inheriting any repairs that need to be done. Is that enough?”

Paul: Stop. Hit rewind on that. Said very well, said very quickly. I think we’ll have the editors unpack that for you really. I’m guessing that this guy didn’t say–

Jeffrey: Moved forward, had us over for the most amazing buffet dinner his wife cooked afterward. They’re great clients. They’ve referred us people. You have to decide what your value is. I just got a referral for a $10 million buyer which is a big deal for me. I said, “Oh, I’m so sorry but I can’t move forward until you decide that you’re willing to commit with me and only me.”

They’ve got a million agents sending them listings, showing them random stuff. I said, “I’m looking for the same mutual commitment. If you’re ready to do that–” She’s still intrigued by me because somebody who’s worth $60, $80 million, they appreciate that. They’re not respecting you because you’re like, “Whatever you need, let me send you this one around. Do whatever you want.” No, they want a pro who goes, “Whoa.”

Paul: I think people don’t understand that as much. One of the things that you said to me that was super cool was just if this is the way I’m treating our negotiation right now, how do you think I’m going to treat the person that’s coming to buy your house, or how do you think I’m going to treat the seller? I’m going to say, “Okay.”

Jeffrey: It’s true, you know it.

Paul: Yes, I know it.

Jeffrey: How many agents will go, “Oh, yes, just get anything. He needs to sell.” I’m mortified. I take advantage of it with my buyers, but they will throw you under the bus in a second. Guess what? They’ll feel good about it because you wanted me to discount so why shouldn’t I discount you? I’m just being fair.

Paul: Correct. The clients get a sense of this. The realtors believe their job is to put the deal together and make that deal close. What you’re saying to me is you’re going to really act as my fiduciary, you’re going to really go to bat for me. When I’m dealing with you, when you’re representing me and you’re a brick wall, if the other side needs to make the deal, maybe they’ll cave on their side, but we’re not going to cave on ours.

Jeffrey: My favorite thing to do these days with agents too, is they’re like, “Hey, what do you say we split this together?” I say, “I tell you what, we’re not doing that, you’re keeping your hard-earned money. Here’s what we’re going to do. What really matters to your client? What’s driving this? Let’s solve it. There’s a solution.” Everyone wants to throw their money at problems instead of actually using their skill set and understanding it. I always say too, I will negotiate for you, Paul, to be great, but I’m also not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. If I know that this is a moment of the deal falling apart, and I know that we’re not going to get more from the next guy, I’m going to tell you to take it.

Part of being a great negotiator is knowing when you need to take it. We had another one where they wanted a $15,000 credit for a chimney. That was all they asked for. Everything else was cool. My client’s like, “Let’s just give it to them. It’s fine. It’s a $3.5 million house.” I said, “No, give him nothing.” He said, “What do you mean give him nothing? At least split It.” I go, “No.” They’re like, “Why?” I say, “Because I stood in the open house as I promised you I would do all the open houses and I heard the wife say, we hate fireplaces, we’re putting our plasma there.” They don’t care about the fireplace because I’m listening, I’m processing so we gave them zero and they signed off.

Paul: I love it.

Jeffrey: $15,000 because I was willing to listen and take an extra minute. There’s times where somebody is so sensitive to rats. You think, “Oh, it’s $300 to get pest service,” but I can see that it’s their biggest pressure point, what’s driving them here. It’s not always about a spreadsheet. I immediately say, “You pay that $300. Let’s get this house sorted.”

Paul: Bottomed up.

Jeffrey: Traps out, dead carcasses out, this would be a deal killer for the wrong reasons.

Paul: Got it. I’m going to ask a few specific questions about luxury. We all define luxury differently. A rule of thumb might be three times an average sell price. How do you define luxury? Do you do something different on a luxury listing presentation or you just do the same thing?

Jeffrey: That’s a great question. I still haven’t gotten to that really high level. I think in a lot of markets, they say luxury is the top 10% of that market. Here we’re talking about $300 million sales this year. I got more $20 and $30 million open houses that I can count. Even though my mind is in that game and I know the inventory because I’m ready when my turn comes, but I’m not playing that level. I think absolutely it’s different. Just to give you one example, a couple of people in our office just arranged a dinner because they narrowed it down in their database that there’s 2,000 people on this planet that can afford their $115 million listing. They arranged a dinner for these people.

That’s at a whole another level where you’re operating and tapping into databases where you get such specific information on people’s needs and wants. Generally speaking, I think that every price point brings different awareness of people. I would say it’s really as simple as thinking about it as a restaurant. When somebody walks into a taco stand, there’s a different expectation than when they’re having a three-star Michelin meal and you just need to adjust to that expectation.

Paul: One of the things that I’m getting, tell me, what’s your average sales price now?

Jeffrey: This year we did a lot of $4 and $5 so we’re probably right around $3 million this year.

Paul: $3 million listing, a lot of people, even in LA, are consider are going to consider $3 million listing a luxury listing. You’re not. You’re saying, “Hey, if it’s a $10 million listing, I’m considering it. I’ll do something different with a $10 million, but in my $3 million, I’m doing the Jeffrey thing.”

Jeffrey: There you go. You just figured it out.

Paul: [chuckles]

Jeffrey: The definition of luxury is twice of what you’re doing now. [laughs]

Paul: The biggest sale you’ve ever done, two times that is luxury.

Jeffrey: The short answer is, technically, I think there’s very little difference. It’s where you market it, but you’re still marketing it. You’re not always having open houses, obviously, at the really high-end. You’re doing more surgical precision, specific showings. You’re doing a lot more targeted marketing.

Paul: We have a member of our audience here. They’ve just got what they consider to be their first luxury listing. They’re in the business. They know what they take to the regular listing. What different or more should they take to the luxury listing, or is it just what they bring?

Jeffrey: We bring nothing for starters because we just want to stay focused on the person.

Paul: Wow.

Jeffrey: There’s always going to be somebody with a prettier package, or thicker package, or bigger package. All I’m bringing is myself and a great energy and my sole focus is you. I would say the difference with any listing is just who you’re talking to. I’m going to figure out what matters to you and focus on that.

Paul: Okay, Jeffrey, we have done over 800 podcasts. I have to say, I haven’t heard every single one of them but I’ve heard a lot of them. I do not think I’ve had or heard or hosted a podcast where the agent said they did not bring anything to the listing appointment.

Jeffrey: We don’t.

Paul: You’ve got to tell me what that is.

Jeffrey: Here’s the deal, I really believe this, there’s two things. Number one, if you bring something you’re already in trouble because there’s always somebody with something bigger and prettier, there just is. If you want to define your skill set by how thick, or tall, or pretty your book is, you already put yourself at odds. Like you said to me, “Oh, I have this guy over here who’s done a million.” That’s because he probably showed you a really tall book. Number two, automatically how can we connect if the focus is here?

“Hey, Paul. Nobody wants to focus here. They want to focus here. Paul, tell me what the perfect scenario looks like? If you hire us and this thing unfolds, what’s it going to look like if it’s perfect for you? Paul, tell me what’ve you’ve loved about living here more than anything else? Paul, tell me what is the most important thing that I need to make sure a buyer understands about this house?”

That’s all that matters because if I think the most important thing is that you’re in X school district but you don’t have kids, you really don’t care. You may think that the most important thing is that you get to meditate to that ocean from this chair every morning. I’m going to tap into that being important to you and then that’s going to become part of my marketing presentation.

Paul: Hang on now. We’ve got the listing presentation, you’re going to go with nothing.

Jeffrey: Right.

Paul: Do you go with a listing? What if I’m ready to sign, you’re going to tell me I can’t sign?

Jeffrey: Paul, it’s been great meeting you. You need to get to dinner. I’ll DocuSign it to you. [chuckles]

Paul: There’s stuff that resonates with me here. One of the things because I own a big brokerage, there are vendors that want to come and talk to me all the time. I try to avoid those conversations. Eventually, when one gets through because Jeffrey Saad says, “You have to meet my guy,” I’m just going to say okay to that. The guy comes in, and you know what they do, they’re showing me a tech product. You know what they do, they flip the computer open, and they start telling me all about their tech product.

Jeffrey: You aren’t interested in that.

Paul: Oh, I’m done.

Jeffrey: You’re done.

Paul: I actually had to tell a guy one time, “You know what? Stop. Close the computer. You’ve lost me.” Talk to me.

Jeffrey: He hasn’t even asked you what you’re problem is yet. How can you know to solve it? How many of us go, “Please start your presentation. I love books and programs.”? Nobody likes that. It makes you actually curl up almost and want to run. I always say first to the person, “How much time do you have allotted for this, because I want to respect that and be out of here?” They say 30 minutes, 30 it is. If 30 I’m ready to go, and they’re like, “No, I’m good,” now I already know we’re in a good place because that 30 was their safety valve. It wasn’t the real time.

Paul: If you get to that 30-minute mark and we’re really in flow, and you’re going to have the guts to say, “You know what, Jeffrey, I know you said 30 minutes. It’s gone 32 minutes so I’m going to get out of your hair.”

Jeffrey: Oh, yes.

Paul: That’s good energy, right.

Jeffrey: Oh, yes. “Oh my gosh. I just realized that we’re at your 30. Are you going to be okay tonight? I’ve got time but I don’t want to mess up your plans.” “No, keep going.”

Paul: That’s the script for you.

Jeffrey: Now I already know that we’re on the right path.

Paul: You’re going to come to me at a listing appointment, and you’re going to bring nothing, you’re going to connect with me, and then what?

Jeffrey: Then go through the general flow. Starts off with, “In a perfect world, what would this look like for you?” That really helps lay out what matters to you and the timing. Sometimes they go, “In a perfect world, I’ll be sold in a year,” and you’re already going like, “Why are they even here?” This is, “I need to be sold by Friday.” We’re going to give you more information. You are not learning anything when you’re talking. I already know all about me. I don’t need to know about me. I want to know about you. If I’m talking, I’m failing. If you’re talking, I’m already winning. That’s it.

What’s the perfect scenario look like? When was the last time you went through this? What did you like about it? What didn’t you like about it? How are you going to be making your decision? Are you going to be hiring the person that gives you the highest price? Just so you know, we charge a lot. Is commission going to be a deal-breaker for you? I get right to it. All of that stuff.

[sound cut]

Paul: You’re setting up the win for what we talked about on the commission conversation.

Jeffrey: Absolutely. Our listings can be as short as 15 minutes and as long as 2 hours. It all depends on you, and what you need, and what’re saying because a lot of people, they’ve already made their decision. You’re spending an hour convincing them not to work with you.

Paul: I like that. Here’s the thing, one of the things we talked about before was the superpower thing. I know what superpowers I have. I know which great things I’m going to do. I have this great plan on how I’m going to sell Jeffrey’s house. I go in and I really want to tell you how great I am, and what I’m going to do, but that’s a mistake.

Jeffrey: I make them beg to find out about me. That’s my litmus test is that they just won’t stop asking about me because I’m not talking about me. Guess what, then they’re listening because they’re ready to hear about me. Nobody wants to hear about you if you haven’t told them about you first. We’re all human beings. When you’re interested in me, I just like you more, as you know, you’re a master of this stuff and then I do want to hear about you. I even say to them when they say to me, “Tell me about your marketing.” “You know what, my marketing doesn’t even matter until I fully understand what’s important to you.”

Paul: You’re even going to resist the question once you get it?

Jeffrey: Yes, because I need to know, and then I’ll even be intrigued. I try to be more intrigued than I really am looking up, and thinking, and letting know what I think. “You know, Paul, you’ve mentioned this marketing a few times. It sounds like that’s going to be the most important thing for you. Should we focus on the marketing?”

Paul: Sure. I think marketing is super important.

Jeffrey: Then we’ll start talking about that, or I’ll say, “I can see that you’ve already made your decision. Are you ready to work with us?”

Paul: I like it. That’s a great close.

Jeffrey: I don’t want to waste your time for another half hour convincing you that we’re the ones. By the way, here’s a really powerful question. Paul, why am I here? Why do you have us here for this interview?

Paul: Yes.

Jeffrey: Most agents are afraid to ask that. When you ask that, we had somebody literally say, “Clearly you sold every house in this neighborhood. You’ve been coming to our grove for ages. We like you. You seem calm and confident.” They basically gave my whole presentation. At that point, I knew I had to not convince seller to do anything. It was a 20-minute presentation, we got the listing.

Paul: This is the killer takeaway because what Jeffrey is doing is he’s getting the person that he’s talking to to do the work for him. It’s just normal in sales. When I’m talking, I believe what I’m saying. When the salesperson is talking, I’m putting this 50% discount on what’s true. He’s trying to convince me. You unweight and weigh to the other person and say, “Hey, so why did you have us come over?”

Jeffrey: The other thing too, agents can’t believe I do this, the first question is, “I noticed Jeffrey represented you into buying the house. Why wouldn’t you just work with Jeffrey?”

Paul: Right. I love it.

Jeffrey: That is so powerful. Again, don’t hide the elephant in the room, ask it. This is what somebody said to me just last week, “I’ll tell you why. They haven’t returned my call in three weeks. I’m not working with people who don’t return phone calls.” Almost hostile about it, or, “You know what, I love them but they were out of the area. A friend recommended them to me, and I realized we just weren’t impressed.” You get the information because guess what, when they are planning on using that person and you’re just there to add more info, you know really quickly.

Paul: That’s great.

Jeffrey: That when I say, “You know, Paul, it sounds like Jenny is going to be best for you. You just need an extra price because I’m happy to just give you another price if that’s what you’re looking for.”

Paul: “What I’ve decided is I’m going to list with Jenny. I’m just going to have Jeffrey come over and give me some more info.” When you throw that right out there, they’re like, “Maybe I am interested in Jeffrey.” That’s the energy of it. Right?

Jeffrey: Right.

Paul: Rather than you coming in and go, “Hey, you know what, Jenny is not so great. Let me show the stuff we can do.” Now I’m like, “Oh, let me defend Jenny.”

Jeffrey: Exactly. You go it.

Paul: It’s a different energy, different way. This is very unique stuff. I really truly believe it’s one of a kind stuff I really do. I’m so glad that you’re offering this to Rockstar Nation.

Jeffrey: That’s the goal.

Paul: Thanks again. One of the reasons why I wouldn’t want to go door-knocking is I truly don’t know what to say and I don’t know how to handle that uncomfortable situation where the people, let’s face it, don’t want to talk to you. When people knock on my door, I’m interested in what they’re doing for a minute because I’m in the business. Other than that, I’m like, “Leave me alone.” The piece that Jeffrey did about what exactly to say and how to handle that, when I listened to Jeffrey do that live, I feel less stressed about door knocking. I really do.

Jeffrey: Good.

Paul: I’m ready to door knock.

Jeffrey: Yes, let’s go

Paul: Before I wasn’t because I was thinking in door-knocking, that I was going to have to be shiny polished and how am I going to turn every no into a yes? All that sort of thing. Jeffrey distilled it. You’re going to go in, and you’re going to knock the door and you’re going to take the energy from them. The thing that you’re going to get is you’re going to hand them the materials, you’re going to say your name, and you’re going to wave. A lot of times, you don’t want more than that anyway.

Jeffrey: Yes. If there’s any inkling of interest on their part, if they happen to have just been talking about selling or thinking about it, they’re going to let you have a conversation. If they’re not, you want to get out of there anyway, and they hopefully will remember you, especially if you keep hitting it.

Paul: Got it.

Jeffrey: Keep hitting it.

Paul: This important piece, it seems obvious, but you’re not convincing someone to sell their house right now.

Jeffrey: Yes. That’s perfectly said, Paul. That is probably the second biggest nugget of this whole thing is what you just said, Paul, which is, we’re not here to convince anybody. I’m here to facilitate your dreams. I’m a dream maker but you have to first decide what has to happen. If you’re ready to sell, that will be the best process ever. I’m not going to convince you to sell. I’ve never sold anybody a house in my life. You walk in, you feel it viscerally. You want to live here, then that sets me in motion. It’s never about the end result, it’s the journey. If your whole focus is I’m knocking for dollars, you’ll never win. If you’re knocking to be of service and to put prospecting into the universe, you’ll win.

Paul: Interesting. I’m learning, of course. One of the things that I talked to my agents and my managers about is that they really sort of are knocking for dollars, but they’re not. It’s that mindset. I’m thinking, “Hey, how many conversations do I have to have?” If I’m coaching an agent, I go. “Hey, look, here’s how many conversations you have to have in order to sell one house.” In essence, I know your skillset and so if you make this many conversations, you’re going to sell that many houses. There is solid science to it.

Jeffrey: Absolutely.

Paul: The mindset of it is, yes, I’m going to have these many conversations, but they’re going to be helpful conversations.

Jeffrey: You’re one of the greatest businessmen I’ve ever met, always been a mentor to me, yet all you ever do is ask intriguing great questions, which is why you’re good at this. Even though you have financial plans, it never feels that way. That’s the difference.

Paul: Sure. One of the pieces of that and I don’t know if we can translate this is, I do call the people that I find interesting too. Maybe in being the realtor, one of the things you did, as you said, is you’re walking away, which I was always already because I don’t want the door knock. Jeffrey’s already– He senses that he’s walking away and as he was walking away through one of the scripts, you’re like, “If you ever have any construction projects, or whatever, I have great referrals.” Immediately I’m like, “Oh, actually, I have that one wall that needs plaster.” I’m like, “Hey, can you come back?”

Jeffrey: I’ve gotten those email follow-ups. They call the card, she goes, “Sorry, I was short with you at the door.” Exactly what she saw. We are planning on doing a project I referred to somebody, she’s still thrilled to this day. Hasn’t sold yet.

Paul: I love it.

Jeffrey: I am clearly top of the [crosstalk].

Paul: I love it. One of the other things that you mentioned, which is the first time I heard it. That makes it cool because I’ve been in the business a long time. You talked about head knocking. You got door knocking, now you got head knocking. Talk to me about head knocking.

Jeffrey: As a realtor, we are blessed and cursed with the same thing, which is that you are always on. We are so blessed to have this fluid lifestyle, we can go anywhere, do anything, make any amount of money. It’s beautiful, but also that’s why you’re always on. Head knocking, I’m at a car wash and this guy is standing next to me. I’m looking like I’m looking. He’s in this suit, bow tie, just tight. I literally looked at him and I just said, and it was very sincere, I go, “That is your car, right?” He laughs and he smiles. He goes, “Yes, how did you know?” I say, “Because anyone that looks that good has to drive that car.”

He laughed. We started talking, got his information. Sure enough, he wants to buy a $4 million house. It’s just about always being engaging and intrigued by people. You’re good at reading people too and that’s why I love coming from the restaurant business because it is a hospitality business, is a service business. When you’re aware of people, and you make people comfortable, then you have conversations. When you have conversations, you sell houses.

Paul: Love it. Head knocking. We got it. I always thought head knocking, that’s something else.

Jeffrey: [laughs].

Paul: I’m from Pittsburgh, you know?

Jeffrey: Yes. [laughs] Exactly. That’s why you get them to buy, right?

Paul: Yes, there you go. Let me shift gears a little bit. You have a lot of experience and I’m wondering if you were talking to the Jeffrey Saad that was a rookie agent, what advice would you give yourself?

Jeffrey: It’s a great question and a super hard question because I think we all want to paint our biographies like we planned it so beautifully. Like, “Here’s exactly what I thought would happen,” and the truth is I was like, “I had no other choice so I had to make it work and it worked.” I would say because I love my life and I’m grateful, I would probably tell myself the same stuff I’ve just spent the last hour with you talking about because it worked.

Paul: Correct.

Jeffrey: I would also tell myself, don’t ever stop being a student. The moment you think you’re the master is the beginning of your downfall because if you stay in student mode and in learning mode, you’ll always be curious, and you’ll always be getting better. I would tell that self the art of kaizen, better every day, just a little bit. If you could be 0.1% better a day, 37% better a year.

Paul: Wow.

Jeffrey: Just remember if you want to lose weight, eat your cake on the treadmill for the first week. Just start. Then set the cake down, then turn it on, and go a little faster. You’re not going to make 20 door-knocking sales next week no matter how hard you try. You’re not going to change overnight, young Jeffrey, I would tell myself so just be on the journey, be consistent, and be better every day.

Paul: The same advice I guess goes, as a general matter, for the agents that are listening. What one piece of advice would you give them to drastically increase their business? Is that the same answer or is it a different answer?

Jeffrey: My answer would be be you, uniquely you because everyone else is taken. Oscar Wilde, not Jeffrey Saad. I love that quote because you got to be your authentic you. If I try to be the million-dollar agent in the suit, that’s not who I am clearly. Bring your authentic self. Don’t look at your phone for the first two hours after you wake up. Start your day off bringing your best self, which is a whole nother podcast we can do. Really that’s crucial because all the technique in the world doesn’t matter if you don’t come from a good place.

Paul: One of the things I always talk to managers and agents about is very similar. I call it superpower. Every everybody has strengths, everybody has weaknesses. What is your superpower? One of the things that Jeffrey said was, he talking about leaving a recipe on his notepad. Jeffrey is a master chef and he’s known for that. That’s his superpower. I’m not going to leave a recipe. I have to think of something else. I’m not sure what I’m going put on my pad.

Jeffrey: Perfectly said.

Paul: I’m going to think about it, though, because I do have a superpower. It’s not being a chef. People might think, “Oh, recipe is cool,” but it’s not cool from me from you.

Jeffrey: Well said.

Paul: It’s cool from you.

Jeffrey: Because it’s sincere. The upside of your upside is far greater than the upside of your downside ever will be. I love that.

Paul: I’ve never heard that but I like it. The upside of your upside is way more than the upside of your downside. I like that. There’s a fabulous takeaway. I appreciate that. You have some experience competing on the Food Network, going in. You have how many other chefs, 11 other chefs, something like that if I remember, right?

Jeffrey: Elimination.

Paul: Plus of elimination. Jeffrey, if we put you in a new city, which you have experience with but I’m only going to give you a $2,000 budget, I’m going to give you your cell phone, and we’re going to pay $2 million to the person that does the most sales six months from now, what are you gonna do?

Jeffrey: That is awesome. First of all, I would do that show with you. That would be soo cool. I got $2,000?

Paul: Yes, $2,000, cell phone, six months, sell some houses. We’re going to follow you and the other 11 around, and the person who sells the most houses is going to win $2 million.

Jeffrey: Number one, I’m going to go straight to the neighborhood that I gravitate with specifically the micro hood where I’m comfortable being where I want to be because if you feel like you fit, that’s the first step.

Paul: Okay,

Jeffrey: Number two, I’m going to go to the key restaurants and coffee shops and find the owners that are the mayors of that area and I am going to introduce myself and see how I can be a value to them and make myself have a presence there, because that’s the quickest way to get in with connectors and make the most headway.

Paul: I think that’s amazing, so I’m going to slow it down just a little bit. Great advice. I buy it. Now, what do I do? Because I’m going to go to the coffee shop, how do I add value to the coffee shop owner? What am I going to do to get the coffee shop owner to be like, “Hey, Paul Morris is cool.”

Jeffrey: That’s a great question. I’m going to start off by understanding what’s valuable to them. Funny enough, I did this in Beverly Hills. I met the guy who was the king of Beverly Hills lunchtime place and I said, “Hey, I just want you to know, I’m working down the street. I’m a realtor. I’m super on top of it, making great headway. Funny enough, I used to be in the restaurant business and I got to tell you, I love what you’re doing with ABC.” Then he started asking me questions and I said, “Yes, I was actually a partner. We had 15 restaurants.” He wants to grow his business.

I immediately was like, “How do I add value to this guy?” I started sharing some of my restaurant experience. I’m always going to look for how to add value to them which automatically brings it back to you. People want to help. I think you even taught me this. When you ask somebody for their help or advice, they become committed to your success. I’m also going to be honest and say, “Hey, I’m here. I can use your help if you know anybody.” I’m going to fast forward some of the stuff to win the–

Paul: Sure. Asking a simple favor. I think that’s as far back as Dale Carnegie, for sure. Asking simple favor that people can then feel good about doing for sure. What else is interesting to me is that when I wanted the very specifics of getting that restaurant tour or that coffee shop person to help you, you went right back to your superpower. I cannot get that person to like me by giving him restaurant tips. I don’t want our audience to hear about it. I don’t have restaurant tips, so how am I going?

Jeffrey: You’re a fashion designer, you’re an interior designer, you’re going to go to all the coolest new fabric and rug shops and furniture stores. |I love what you have going on here. I’m planning on selling houses in this neighborhood. Are you interested in staging? Are you interested in a package deal where you will supply the furniture?” Find the fit and create synergy.

Paul: That’s a phenomenal gameshow. I would bet on Jeffrey as the winner for sure, no question. Jeffrey and I, we now have our new show ideas, so that’s cool. I want to say my sincere gratitude for you coming out here today, taking your time, sharing all this amazing information with the Rockstar Nation. We had everybody in our live audience was like, “Wow, this is great stuff.” I’m totally fired up. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.”

Jeffrey: Anything for you, Paul.

Paul: My pleasure.

Jeffrey: Awesome.